May 20, 2024Catholic News AgencyNews Briefs6Print
CNA Staff, May 20, 2024 / 13:26 pm (CNA).
In his first in-depth interview with a U.S. broadcast network, Pope Francis addressed a wide range of topics, including the war in Ukraine, antisemitism, and U.S. immigration policy.
A portion of the full interview, which will air Monday evening on CBS, aired Sunday evening on the network’s flagship magazine program, “60 Minutes.” In the segment, the pope answered questions from “CBS Evening News” anchor Norah O’Donnell through a Spanish translator.
On the threat of famine in Gaza ahead of World Children’s Day:
“[The threat is] not just in Gaza. Think of Ukraine. Many kids from Ukraine come here. You know something? That those children don’t know how to smile? I’ll say something to them [mimics smile]… They have forgotten how to smile. And that is very painful.”
On wars in Ukraine and elsewhere:
“Please, warring countries, all of them, stop. Stop the war. Seek to negotiate. Strive for peace. A negotiated peace is always better than an endless war.”
On growing antisemitism in the U.S. amid the Israel-Hamas war:
“All ideology is bad. And antisemitism is an ideology, and it is bad. Any ‘anti’ is always bad. You can criticize one government or the other, the government of Israel, the Palestinian government. You can criticize all you want, but not ‘anti’ a people. Neither anti-Palestinian nor antisemitic. No. … I pray a lot for peace. And also suggest, ‘Please, stop. Negotiate.’”
On immigration:
“Migration is something that makes a country grow. [To O’Donnell:] They say that you Irish migrated and brought the whiskey, and that the Italians migrated and brought the mafia… [laugh] It’s a joke. Don’t take it badly. But, migrants sometimes suffer a lot. They suffer a lot.”
On Texas state effort to revoke registration of migrant-serving Annunciation House in El Paso, Texas:
“That is madness. Sheer madness. To close the border and leave them there, that is madness. The migrant has to be received. Then you see how you are going to deal with him. Maybe you have to send him back, I don’t know, but each case ought to be considered humanely.”
On the “globalization of indifference”:
“Do you want me to state it plainly? People wash their hands! There are so many Pontius Pilates on the loose out there… who see what is happening, the wars, the injustice, the crimes… ‘That’s OK, that’s OK’ and wash their hands. It’s indifference. That is what happens when the heart hardens… and becomes indifferent. Please, we have to get our hearts to feel again. We cannot remain indifferent in the face of such dramas of humanity. The globalization of indifference is a very ugly disease. Very ugly.”
On sexual abuse cases in the Church:
“[The Church] must continue working. Unfortunately, the tragedy of the abuses is enormous. And against this, an upright conscience and not only to not permit it but to put in place the conditions so that it does not happen. … It cannot be tolerated. When there is a case of a consecrated man or woman who abuses, the full force of the law falls upon them. In this there has been a great deal of progress.”
On the Vatican’s controversial Fiducia Supplicans document allowing for limited pastoral blessings of same-sex couples:
“What I allowed was not to bless the union. That cannot be done because that is not a sacrament. I cannot. The Lord made it that way. But to bless each person, yes. The blessing is for everyone. For everyone. To bless a hom*osexual-type union, however, goes against the law; the natural law, the law of the Church. But to bless each person, why not? The blessing is for all. Some people were scandalized by this. But why? For everyone! Everyone!”
When asked about criticisms from “conservative” bishops in the United States:
“You use the adjective ‘conservatives.’ That is to say, a conservative is one who sticks to something and does not want to see anything else. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to take into account situations from the past, but another is to be closed inside a dogmatic box.”
On gestational surrogacy, which is forbidden by the Catholic Church:
“In regard to surrogate motherhood, in the strictest technical sense of the term, no, it cannot happen. Sometimes surrogacy has become a business, and that is very bad. It is very bad. … The other hope is adoption. I would say that in each case the situation should be clearly considered, considered medically and then morally. I believe in these cases there is a general rule, but you have to go into each case in particular to assess the situation, as long as the moral principle is not skirted.”
On giving hope to others as the pope:
“You have to be open to everything. The Church is like that: Everyone, everyone, everyone. ‘That so-and-so is a sinner…?’ Me too, I am a sinner. Everyone! The Gospel is for everyone. If the Church places a customs officer at the door, that is no longer the church of Christ. Everyone.”
When asked what gives him hope:
“Everything. You see tragedies, but you also see so many beautiful things. You see heroic mothers, heroic men, men who have hopes and dreams, women who look to the future. That gives me a lot of hope. People want to live. People forge ahead. And people are fundamentally good. We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart is good.”
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6 Comments
His Holiness’ top message to Norah O’Donnell, Church and world, “You have to be open to everything. The Church is like that: Everyone, everyone, everyone. ‘That so-and-so is a sinner…?’ Me too, I am a sinner. Everyone! The Gospel is for everyone. If the Church places a customs officer at the door, that is no longer the church of Christ. Everyone.” Yes, when the Church’s mission is to transform the sinner to a life of holiness. Not when it’s prepared to accommodate a sinful life. As if it’s not God who calls sinners [to repent], rather it’s we who call sinners to ourselves . A pontiff cannot pretend to replace God, as if the response to sin rests with himself.
Norah O’Donnell, Catholic, three children smiled charmingly throughout. However the interview was arranged, usually by a preset agenda O’Donnell seemed quite comfortable. Her background may give input. She has a BA philosophy from Georgetown followed by a Masters in the liberal arts. The Jesuits at Georgetown are likely the most heterodox in America. She’s intelligent enough to know the difference between a more traditional response to a liberal. After Georgetown she spent 12 years with NBC, Chief Washington correspondent, a good part as anchor for MSNBC. 60 Minutes has changed from an more objective stance to a more partisan. Norah’s ‘fact finding’ interview was nothing more than liberal messaging for the viewer, a production from what might be called, The Ministry for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda.Reply
Perhaps I’m wrong about Norah O’Donnell as Morally complicit, and I hope I am. Catholics at large especially in the industry upper echelon, particularly the media and politics where there’s greater exposure give indication that they sold their soul to the devil, not quite like Biden, rather simply being compliant with their employers moral zeitgeist. The pressure is enormous when you’re talented, present well, and there’s opportunity to advance making life easier when raising children, wishing to enjoy the many good things, restaurants with friends, vacations. How many would succumb and learn to be omnilikeable? Our road carrying the Cross is a difficult one for laity to follow and very demanding for clergy to live and to preach with virile conviction. We, the priests of Christ of this world must realize we were not promised a rose garden. Rather something much better.
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Interesting responses to the questions the Pontif gave. The last question, his response not quite what one would expect from a Christian..follower of Christ. When asked “what gives him hope”? I guess he was being honest… he gives himself hope. As a Christian, my HOPE IS IN My Savior, Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ. The Pope should have advised people to seek our Lord God. Not once did he Glorify our Savior. Not for HIS glory.. he interviewed for his own glory.
Reply
His Holiness Pope Francis is a messenger of the Good News. Mercy, compassion, solidarity, fellow feeling, peace and justice are dear to the Pontiff. May he be blessed with good health.
Reply
As in the movie “Cool Hand Luke” (1967) where the prison warden explains to the chain gang and the irrepressible Luke Jackson (Paul Newman): “What we have here is a failure to communicate!”…
We read: “All ideology is bad…” Yes! And, of Fiducia Supplicans, “What I allowed was not to bless the union” [now a union?]. Yes! And, “You use the adjective ‘conservatives.’ That is to say, a conservative is one who sticks to something and does not want to see anything else. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to take into account situations from the past, but another is to be closed inside a dogmatic box.” Say what?
What of the progressive ideology (!) against those labeled/libeled as “backwardists”?
As compared to, say, subliminal photo-ops for Jeanine Gramick of New Ways Ministry and for Father (“father”?) James Martin—whose staged and “spontaneous” blessing and broadcasted commentary remain uncorrected?What of the intact fact that Fiducia Supplicans is clearly worded to bless “the couple,” and, indeed, as a special case (!) breezily camouflaged within the inclusive (!) range of merely “irregular” situations?
What does it mean to characterize guardianship of the perennial Catholic Church’s living “[T]radition” (the Magisterium) as a closed “dogmatic box”?
That is, how should the “position” of faithful clarity inform and reform the fashionably progressive and erosive “predisposition”—the deepest ideological rut of all?
What does it mean, really, to “take into account”? Why so repetitively and excludingly (!) discount the fully human moral absolutes? Defended in Veritatis Splendor against the Fundamental Option, proportionalism, and consequentialism, and—it would seem—the synodally ambulatory “time is greater than space” (Gaudium et Spes, 2013).
Perhaps a direct “dialogue” with backwardist/constructive critics, and not merely a monologue with a scripted/media talking head? Could this prevent what after eleven years might be only a “failure to communicate”?
Reply
About being “dogmatic” and “suicidal”. . . at the eve of the first so-called Reformation, the layman THOMAS MORE said it this way:
“If we lived in a State where virtue was profitable, common sense would make us good, and greed would make us saintly. And, we’d live like animals or angels in the happy land that needs no heroes. But since in fact we see that avarice, anger, envy, pride, sloth, lust and stupidity commonly profit far beyond humility, chastity, fortitude, justice and thought [!], and have to choose, to be human at all…why then perhaps we must stand fast a little—even at the risk of being heroes” (Robert Bolt’s “A Man for All Seasons,” Act II, 1960).
Substitute for “heroes,” the labels “closed” or “conservatives.” And, for “standing fast” the business of only “walking together” (the vademecum).
So, about the near-impossible mission of evangelizing a SENSATE WORLD that no longer even understands the vocabulary of the Christian cosmos…are we served well by breaking coherence with the real Council/St. John Paul II/Benedict XVI—and between faithful “thought” (concepts) and concrete practice?
How to BOTH stand fast and walk together?
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